Post-Sexist World/The Greatest Singers of All Time
Whenever someone tells me that sexism is basically over and feminism is a relic (and trust me, it happens) my brain tries to do a spit take inside my skull. This is one of the stranger head sensations to experience, so the look I give these people isn’t so much anger or irritation as utter discomfort. Because my brain is doing really weird things in that moment.
Because they’re so infuriatingly wrong, see.
I get it. When you start examining sexism you often end up confronting not-so-fun subjects like abuse, sexual assault, workplace politics, pesky healthcare dilemmas, or that old “body image” chestnut that feminists trot out to try to get us to stop looking at women in bikinis. And if you really think hard you’ll find it hard to avoid looking at other unsettling things too: racism, classism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. and then your whole day will be taken up having to think about how and why you’re privileged. Laaaaaaame.*
And very few people have all the possible privileges at once, so it’s easy to get caught up in the “Well things aren’t easy for any of us, little camper. But I’m doing the best I can with what I’ve got, and you should too!” fallacy and start arguing that, for instance, sexism doesn’t exist because you are a short man, and height discrimination is very real.
It all gets complicated and messy, you know?
But you know what’s not messy? Popular music! And you know what’s not complicated? Numbers! And you know what perfectly parries any claims that sexism is dead in Western culture? NME’s Greatest Singers of All Time poll! Observe.
On NME’s website, readers are asked to rate various singers of the 20th and 21st Centuries, mostly in the pop, rock, and R&B genres, from one to ten. The selection ranges from Art Garfunkle to Beyonce to Mike Skinner (the garage hip hop phenomenon The Streets) to Patti Smith to Al Green. There are more male nominees, but not overwhelmingly.
So far (as of Tuesday afternoon in my time zone) two women have made it into the top twenty. Monday it was just Aretha Franklin, but Tuesday morning I noticed Janice Joplin had made it to the #20 spot (so maybe by the time this entry posts we’ll have three women on the list). And I think that’s fucked up, not because I think Joni Mitchell should necessarily appear above Kurt Cobain (although one could certainly make an argument for that), but because 18-2 cannot be an accidental, random, “just the way things worked out” ratio. It has to mean something.
(as of Tuesday 6/7/11 1:00PM EST)
If a great preponderance of people agree that men are better at something that’s totally subjective and impossible to quantify outside of pure taste, it means we’ve basically just decided we like women less. We might not really even know why, exactly, but they’re just not as good. Does this seem freshly tapped from the very essence of sexism to anyone else?
There is a problem. Sexism is not over. It is not mass hysteria. It is not liberal brainwashing. And feminism is me, as a woman, wanting to not have to deal with that vague, visceral dismissal of my work, or body, or voice, or abilities. There is a problem. And which singers we all like best is really the least of it, yes, but it’s an easy thing to point out and say: “Now tell me more about this post-sexist world we’re living in, please?”
That said, I still can’t really think of a better singer than Freddie Mercury.
* You thought I forgot ableism, didn’t you?
I’m not arguing with your premise, but your evidence here is not top-drawer. It’s a silly online poll, which means that you get silly online poll-takers saying “Guns N Roses rooooools!!!!!”, which is why you have Michael Jackson and Axl Rose as #2 and #3.
Also, the truth is, historically there were certainly more male pop super stars than female pop super stars, for the exact reasons that you’re stating. While I agree that sexism is not dead, I can certainly appreciate only what I’ve been exposed to. In the genre of hard rock, what have you really got, with regards to female musicians, to refer to historically? You end up with Joan Jett (who rocks my socks off), the Go-Gos, Heart, and…? Uh? Recent stuff. Hard rock has historically been a man’s thing. That’s changing, but if you’re rating all you’ve heard, you’re up against the historical sexism.
Oh, and reading my above comment, I pray that you don’t think that I’m calling YOU silly.
Because I’m not. :)
@Matt G What I’m claiming here is that first impressions and knee-jerk responses to cheesy internet polls betray prejudices whether we mean them to or not. Historical sexism is a huge part of that. What we choose to be exposed to (e.g. the men who listen primarily to hard rock with male vocalists partially because it’s a man’s thing) are a huge part of that.
There have been amazing female singers since the dawn of audio recording technology. We all have access to that. Choosing not to is just that, a choice. And the general feeling that women just aren’t as good at singing as men is, to me, a sad thing. And it’s not just this poll. I’ve met multiple people who claimed they never liked female vocals in a song, ever. I’ve never heard anyone say that about men.
I’m not saying it’s scientific, but I am saying it’s not an accident that the numbers are 18 to 2.
I’m also in agreement with your premise, but when I went to the website and clicked “Skip” just to the first 40 options I was presented with, I only got six or seven female choices (one of them was Patti Smith and the power of her rocking probably counts for at least three men easily). Perhaps a better test would be to see who readers choose as their top ten or twenty vocalists when they get to actually choose instead of rating preselected vocalists (some of whom I’d never heard of).
Obviously, sexism is still plenty rampant and popular music happens to be historically dominated by male artists. I think (he said, pulling anecdotal evidence out of his ass) it may have something to do with (some) men feeling threatened or less manly by listening to female artists and (some) women being totally hot for male artists (because, c’mon, Jim Morrison).
On a personal note, if a woman can sing or play an instrument, I’m practically frothing at the mouth to be her footstool (I’m looking in your direction Karen O and Neko Case).
interestingly enough, Susan Walsh just made a similar post on her blog, with a completely different set of data…
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2011/06/08/politics-and-feminism/have-we-had-enough-feminism-yet/
This is bullshit.
I’m with the people who think this isn’t very good evidence; it’s quite arguable that the poll construction is sexist, but I it’s a poor reflection on society as a whole.
I listen to broadcast electronic music (such as di.fm/vocaltrance/ or Music Choice Electronica) all the time. Every once in a while a singer strikes me so I look up who it was being sampled. The ones I can think of off the top of my head from doing that (in no particular order) are Sarah Brightman, Sarah Atereth, Katherine Ellis, Sheila Brody, Amber, Anna Visi, and Saffron (from Republica, not electronic). There are a couple of male singers I like too, but I never looked up their names. Does that mean I’m misandrist sexist?
“There have been amazing female singers since the dawn of audio recording technology” But how many of them got major radio play in the 70′s and 80′s when most of the people who voted in the poll were growing up? Remember even 10 years ago most people only heard a new musician if they got played on the local radio station. If anything the poll shows sexism in the past by the radio station management. I wonder how different the result would be is it was the greatest singers of the 21st century only.
@Mousie762 What one person likes is usually a subjective preference, and a person is very complex and may have any number of reasons for liking one thing over another.
People en masse overwhelmingly agreeing on a subjective preference is usually a less nuanced thing. Numbers iron out complexity because so many factors average out. When we see a whole flock of people sharing a subjective preference, then we can more easily start speaking about how society as a whole may or may not influence those preferences.
@Joat So even if I were to concede the point that this is mostly a product of historical institutional sexism on the part of the music industry, are you telling me that it isn’t sexism at work when the average listener uncritically decides that those men they were told are better for all those decades really are?
this makes me wonder how much the genres themselves are constructed around a male vocals, particularly the popular genres. i think this is particularly obvious in most metal genres. anyone know of any female thrash metal vocalists?
I typically prefer female vocals. But I think that’s sexist as well. Female voices are sexy. When I’m driving my car hard I want my lovely Valkyries to carry me on that wind. That may not be me talking so much as the whiskey though. But oh – Girl drummers knock the crap out of male drummers every single time. I can hear it. Thud-a-thump-dum thud-a-thump-dum thud-a-thump-dum Brddrappadappattappapdkdkoobbbmoboob! Me: “That’s a girl drummer. Let’s go watch.” A chick behind a trap set moves with speed and precision and grace that a dude just can’t match. Sorry fellas. That’s not the whiskey but may be augmented by it. Carry on please.
Where is Jeff Buckley? srsly? I say the whole poll is utter shite if he is not on it.
@quizzical pussy
If a million people preferring male or female vocalists is sexist, it can only be because it’s sexist for the individuals making up those millions. But on further thought, yes my preferences are sexist, as Clint said about his. Pretty obviously the kind of sexism that results from attraction preferences. In the most obvious example, I like hearing a woman singing about love much more than a man because it’s more fun to imagine she’s singing about me.
I wonder about the gender preference demographics of NME’s poll-takers?
But actually after I read some of the comments, I’m coming more to the conclusion that QP was right originally, and what we’re seeing is a mix of men voting for who they’d like to be like and women voting for who they’d like to be with, both of which are sexist by themselves, but not as much as the dispartity in motivation that I’m theorizing here.
In what fucked up nightmare world is AXL ROSE a better singer than Aretha Franklin?! She took over for freaking PAVAROTTI when he was sick!
Of course, I’d rather listen to my cat struggle with a hairball than GNR, so…
I think you forgot to count Michael Jackson, so there are 3