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	<title>Comments on: This one&#8217;s for the catgirls</title>
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	<description>a sex blog that gets curiouser and curiouser.</description>
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		<title>By: Mousie00</title>
		<link>http://quizzicalpussy.com/this-ones-for-the-catgirls/comment-page-1/#comment-203</link>
		<dc:creator>Mousie00</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quizzicalpussy.com/?p=688#comment-203</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-201&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@quizzical pussy &lt;/a&gt; 
We&#039;re in total agreement as to the ends you want to achieve, but disagree as to the cause of the problem.  I think from your history here that you know more problem guys than I do, so maybe you&#039;re right and I&#039;m wrong.  But I still think the problem, or a big component, is actually a lack of appreciation of different gender perspectives, men treating women just like they&#039;d expect to be treated, a lack of sexism.

&quot;I’d be upset to learn, though, that some guy came up to her and grabbed her ass...&quot;  When I was in college, (and younger and in better shape), some girl came up to me and grabbed my ass.  I did not know her name, though I&#039;d seen her before.  I was not in costume, I was just walking down the hallway of my men&#039;s dorm in my usual biker-looking clothes.  I didn&#039;t feel significantly cheapened or disrespected, I felt admired, a much more concrete and believable praise for my looks than words would have been.  I knew better then and now than to think a woman would feel the same way under the circumstances.  But I&#039;d guess the typical con harrasser doesn&#039;t know better.  He doesn&#039;t act out of a lack of respect, so talking to him about it will miss the point.  He doesn&#039;t know or understand why a woman would feel disrespected instead of admired.

So I think that is where the respect dialog should go.  Starting from the insulting and alienating premise that the listener doesn&#039;t respect women and should will get you tuned out.  Instead talk about what acts are perceived as disrespectful and why they are perceived that way.

In my example, security is a big difference.  If there had been any real threat, as a fairly muscular young 6&#039;3&quot; 230-lb. person, I could have stopped it easily.  If not objecting on the spot caused her to follow up by wandering in through my open dorm door that evening, I would still not have felt in danger.

Another difference is prevalence.  There are lots of men that wish that women would touch them, even briefly; I can&#039;t imagine the reverse is a real problem for the Ivy cosplayer.  If you are drowning in opportunity, being in control of acceptance is much more important than if you are thirsting for opportunity.

I&#039;m sure that you can think of other reasons.  The point is to explain which expressions of admiration or apprecation are creepy, threatening, and uncomfortable, and as far as possible why, rather than assuming attendees would deliberately offend.  As for the hardcore bad people who would deliberately offend, I don&#039;t think you&#039;re going to get through to them by talking anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-201" rel="nofollow">@quizzical pussy </a><br />
We&#8217;re in total agreement as to the ends you want to achieve, but disagree as to the cause of the problem.  I think from your history here that you know more problem guys than I do, so maybe you&#8217;re right and I&#8217;m wrong.  But I still think the problem, or a big component, is actually a lack of appreciation of different gender perspectives, men treating women just like they&#8217;d expect to be treated, a lack of sexism.</p>
<p>&#8220;I’d be upset to learn, though, that some guy came up to her and grabbed her ass&#8230;&#8221;  When I was in college, (and younger and in better shape), some girl came up to me and grabbed my ass.  I did not know her name, though I&#8217;d seen her before.  I was not in costume, I was just walking down the hallway of my men&#8217;s dorm in my usual biker-looking clothes.  I didn&#8217;t feel significantly cheapened or disrespected, I felt admired, a much more concrete and believable praise for my looks than words would have been.  I knew better then and now than to think a woman would feel the same way under the circumstances.  But I&#8217;d guess the typical con harrasser doesn&#8217;t know better.  He doesn&#8217;t act out of a lack of respect, so talking to him about it will miss the point.  He doesn&#8217;t know or understand why a woman would feel disrespected instead of admired.</p>
<p>So I think that is where the respect dialog should go.  Starting from the insulting and alienating premise that the listener doesn&#8217;t respect women and should will get you tuned out.  Instead talk about what acts are perceived as disrespectful and why they are perceived that way.</p>
<p>In my example, security is a big difference.  If there had been any real threat, as a fairly muscular young 6&#8242;3&#8243; 230-lb. person, I could have stopped it easily.  If not objecting on the spot caused her to follow up by wandering in through my open dorm door that evening, I would still not have felt in danger.</p>
<p>Another difference is prevalence.  There are lots of men that wish that women would touch them, even briefly; I can&#8217;t imagine the reverse is a real problem for the Ivy cosplayer.  If you are drowning in opportunity, being in control of acceptance is much more important than if you are thirsting for opportunity.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that you can think of other reasons.  The point is to explain which expressions of admiration or apprecation are creepy, threatening, and uncomfortable, and as far as possible why, rather than assuming attendees would deliberately offend.  As for the hardcore bad people who would deliberately offend, I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re going to get through to them by talking anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: quizzical pussy</title>
		<link>http://quizzicalpussy.com/this-ones-for-the-catgirls/comment-page-1/#comment-201</link>
		<dc:creator>quizzical pussy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quizzicalpussy.com/?p=688#comment-201</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-188&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Mousie00 &lt;/a&gt; In my opinion sexism and sexual harassment are definitely linked. I realize that men can be sexually harassed too and/or that women can harass, but it&#039;s usually a male-on-female offense, and I believe it&#039;s often down to men feeling entitled to sexually engage women in one or another sense. It&#039;s objectifying, disrespectful, and dehumanizing. That&#039;s sexism. This entry does have two distinct parts, but I put them together because to me it&#039;s a clear progression.

I have enough faith in humanity (however misguided it may be) that I&#039;m going to try to get people talking together about respect and consent rather than exploiting the reflex some guys have to whiteknight and try to rescue damsels in distress. I&#039;m not interested in turning my con into a politically correct, sterilized environment, but I do want to remind people that certain types of interaction require permission. I&#039;d ideally like to enlist the well-meaning men and women and get to the point where we all remind each other what&#039;s acceptable, which I guess you could interpret as a form of &quot;rescuing&quot;, although to me it&#039;s just being supportive.

Also, the con staff (all unpaid volunteers who want to make the con fun, successful, and safe) are very involved with the project. Paying attention and giving voice to people who have been harassed or assaulted is a job they understandably want to take on.

Also, the Open Source Boob Project WAS opt-in, although it&#039;s over and will probably never be revived. The problem with that was never that it ignored consent. I&#039;m more concerned that people would feel internal pressure to participate, trying to be &quot;down&quot;. Also, if you make touching boobs into a major event at any con, you&#039;re fostering an environment where people are likely to ignore the actual rules and spirit of something like the OSBP and feel more free to explore new depths of creepiness.

I&#039;m definitely not saying that we shouldn&#039;t look at and enjoy costumes-- or even bodies-- at a con. Some people do attend cons partly to get positive reinforcement about their bodies; some work tirelessly to make amazing costumes. But it&#039;s no fine line that separates looking and admiring from leering creepily. (Holly Pervocracy wrote an excellent &lt;a href=&quot;http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2010/02/gentlemans-guide-to-ogling.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;post&lt;/a&gt; about this a while back.) And touching always requires permission. There&#039;s really not much gray area there.

I completely agree that this chick in her Ivy costume is incredible, and I totally swoon for her. I&#039;d be upset to learn, though, that some guy came up to her and grabbed her ass or &quot;accidentally&quot; brushed against her tits. We all lose when that kind of behavior is tacitly accepted, because then fewer hot chicks dress like Ivy Valentine. I don&#039;t want to live in that world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-188" rel="nofollow">@Mousie00 </a> In my opinion sexism and sexual harassment are definitely linked. I realize that men can be sexually harassed too and/or that women can harass, but it&#8217;s usually a male-on-female offense, and I believe it&#8217;s often down to men feeling entitled to sexually engage women in one or another sense. It&#8217;s objectifying, disrespectful, and dehumanizing. That&#8217;s sexism. This entry does have two distinct parts, but I put them together because to me it&#8217;s a clear progression.</p>
<p>I have enough faith in humanity (however misguided it may be) that I&#8217;m going to try to get people talking together about respect and consent rather than exploiting the reflex some guys have to whiteknight and try to rescue damsels in distress. I&#8217;m not interested in turning my con into a politically correct, sterilized environment, but I do want to remind people that certain types of interaction require permission. I&#8217;d ideally like to enlist the well-meaning men and women and get to the point where we all remind each other what&#8217;s acceptable, which I guess you could interpret as a form of &#8220;rescuing&#8221;, although to me it&#8217;s just being supportive.</p>
<p>Also, the con staff (all unpaid volunteers who want to make the con fun, successful, and safe) are very involved with the project. Paying attention and giving voice to people who have been harassed or assaulted is a job they understandably want to take on.</p>
<p>Also, the Open Source Boob Project WAS opt-in, although it&#8217;s over and will probably never be revived. The problem with that was never that it ignored consent. I&#8217;m more concerned that people would feel internal pressure to participate, trying to be &#8220;down&#8221;. Also, if you make touching boobs into a major event at any con, you&#8217;re fostering an environment where people are likely to ignore the actual rules and spirit of something like the OSBP and feel more free to explore new depths of creepiness.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m definitely not saying that we shouldn&#8217;t look at and enjoy costumes&#8211; or even bodies&#8211; at a con. Some people do attend cons partly to get positive reinforcement about their bodies; some work tirelessly to make amazing costumes. But it&#8217;s no fine line that separates looking and admiring from leering creepily. (Holly Pervocracy wrote an excellent <a href="http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2010/02/gentlemans-guide-to-ogling.html" rel="nofollow">post</a> about this a while back.) And touching always requires permission. There&#8217;s really not much gray area there.</p>
<p>I completely agree that this chick in her Ivy costume is incredible, and I totally swoon for her. I&#8217;d be upset to learn, though, that some guy came up to her and grabbed her ass or &#8220;accidentally&#8221; brushed against her tits. We all lose when that kind of behavior is tacitly accepted, because then fewer hot chicks dress like Ivy Valentine. I don&#8217;t want to live in that world.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mousie00</title>
		<link>http://quizzicalpussy.com/this-ones-for-the-catgirls/comment-page-1/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>Mousie00</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 17:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quizzicalpussy.com/?p=688#comment-192</guid>
		<description>I forgot to say, on a personal note, I think anything that makes that woman feel comfortable wearing that Ivy costume is a good thing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I forgot to say, on a personal note, I think anything that makes that woman feel comfortable wearing that Ivy costume is a good thing!</p>
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		<title>By: Mousie00</title>
		<link>http://quizzicalpussy.com/this-ones-for-the-catgirls/comment-page-1/#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator>Mousie00</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quizzicalpussy.com/?p=688#comment-188</guid>
		<description>I think you have two totally separate issues here, sexism and sexual harrassment.  Lots of those creeps at cons think it would be WONDERFUL to be so attractive as men that random women were grabbing them; they have probably fantasized about it.  They aren&#039;t quite imaginative enough to know what it would be like living that way, and never thought much about dealing socially with being grabbed by a string of malodorous ugly girls while they&#039;re trying to focus on something else.  That&#039;s ignorance rather than sexism.

I think you&#039;d find the most effective and useful counter in a male-heavy population would be based more on sexist gallantry rather than a set of lawyer-requested super-PC guidelines a la corporate environments.  Those are intended not to stop sexual harrassment, but to protect the company in court if anyone files a case.  In the typical sexual harrasment seminar, all men are guilty and some just haven&#039;t been caught.

Overstating things will make good guys uncomfortable and bad guys ignore it.  Make sure the guidelines don&#039;t make an attendee second-guess a clean compliment or a request for a photograph; don&#039;t try to tell anyone that someone goes to a con dressed like Ivy Valentine and wants to be ignored.

I think that the more you encourage the guys to play White Knight policing each other, the better the results will be for making the con fun for everyone.  Catgirls and cosplayers will get more polite attention, and guys will feel good about keeping an eye on the other guy&#039;s interaction with them, and making sure Open Source Boobs is opt-in rather than opt-out.

The more you make it another job for underpaid con staff, the more it will be enforced pointlessly, randomly, and rarely.  The nice guys who respect the rules will avoid looking at all, complaints about bad guys will be dealt with by busy staff thinking mainly about con profits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you have two totally separate issues here, sexism and sexual harrassment.  Lots of those creeps at cons think it would be WONDERFUL to be so attractive as men that random women were grabbing them; they have probably fantasized about it.  They aren&#8217;t quite imaginative enough to know what it would be like living that way, and never thought much about dealing socially with being grabbed by a string of malodorous ugly girls while they&#8217;re trying to focus on something else.  That&#8217;s ignorance rather than sexism.</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;d find the most effective and useful counter in a male-heavy population would be based more on sexist gallantry rather than a set of lawyer-requested super-PC guidelines a la corporate environments.  Those are intended not to stop sexual harrassment, but to protect the company in court if anyone files a case.  In the typical sexual harrasment seminar, all men are guilty and some just haven&#8217;t been caught.</p>
<p>Overstating things will make good guys uncomfortable and bad guys ignore it.  Make sure the guidelines don&#8217;t make an attendee second-guess a clean compliment or a request for a photograph; don&#8217;t try to tell anyone that someone goes to a con dressed like Ivy Valentine and wants to be ignored.</p>
<p>I think that the more you encourage the guys to play White Knight policing each other, the better the results will be for making the con fun for everyone.  Catgirls and cosplayers will get more polite attention, and guys will feel good about keeping an eye on the other guy&#8217;s interaction with them, and making sure Open Source Boobs is opt-in rather than opt-out.</p>
<p>The more you make it another job for underpaid con staff, the more it will be enforced pointlessly, randomly, and rarely.  The nice guys who respect the rules will avoid looking at all, complaints about bad guys will be dealt with by busy staff thinking mainly about con profits.</p>
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		<title>By: quizzical pussy</title>
		<link>http://quizzicalpussy.com/this-ones-for-the-catgirls/comment-page-1/#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>quizzical pussy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quizzicalpussy.com/?p=688#comment-187</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-185&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Noir &lt;/a&gt; Yes! I&#039;ve found their website very helpful, along with &lt;a href= &quot;http://backupproject.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Back Up&lt;/a&gt;. I&#039;m optimistic that we can bring about changes just by opening a dialogue and letting people know that such behavior is a problem. Hopefully, there will be less and less creepery every year if I can implement this well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-185" rel="nofollow">@Noir </a> Yes! I&#8217;ve found their website very helpful, along with <a href= "http://backupproject.org/" rel="nofollow">Back Up</a>. I&#8217;m optimistic that we can bring about changes just by opening a dialogue and letting people know that such behavior is a problem. Hopefully, there will be less and less creepery every year if I can implement this well.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: quizzical pussy</title>
		<link>http://quizzicalpussy.com/this-ones-for-the-catgirls/comment-page-1/#comment-186</link>
		<dc:creator>quizzical pussy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quizzicalpussy.com/?p=688#comment-186</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-184&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Holly Pervocracy &lt;/a&gt; You only like it because it&#039;s perfect. :D

...but I&#039;m probably going to have to end up going with something more inclusive. And less personal, considering a bunch of the Open Source Boob Project founders and participants will probably be there and I don&#039;t want them to think this is about them. Rest assured, though, there&#039;s no way I&#039;m ever going to come up with a better name than that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-184" rel="nofollow">@Holly Pervocracy </a> You only like it because it&#8217;s perfect. :D</p>
<p>&#8230;but I&#8217;m probably going to have to end up going with something more inclusive. And less personal, considering a bunch of the Open Source Boob Project founders and participants will probably be there and I don&#8217;t want them to think this is about them. Rest assured, though, there&#8217;s no way I&#8217;m ever going to come up with a better name than that.</p>
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		<title>By: Noir</title>
		<link>http://quizzicalpussy.com/this-ones-for-the-catgirls/comment-page-1/#comment-185</link>
		<dc:creator>Noir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 17:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quizzicalpussy.com/?p=688#comment-185</guid>
		<description>Hi!

Perhaps of help would be the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cahp.girl-wonder.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Con Anti-Harassment Project&lt;/a&gt;, in case you&#039;ve not heard of it before? It&#039;s been around for a couple of years, and spins off another project supporting women in the Comics industry (both fictional and real). 

Either way, I applaud your efforts -- this is something we need far more of at Cons. Def. will keep reading!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi!</p>
<p>Perhaps of help would be the <a href="http://www.cahp.girl-wonder.org/" rel="nofollow">Con Anti-Harassment Project</a>, in case you&#8217;ve not heard of it before? It&#8217;s been around for a couple of years, and spins off another project supporting women in the Comics industry (both fictional and real). </p>
<p>Either way, I applaud your efforts &#8212; this is something we need far more of at Cons. Def. will keep reading!</p>
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		<title>By: Holly Pervocracy</title>
		<link>http://quizzicalpussy.com/this-ones-for-the-catgirls/comment-page-1/#comment-184</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly Pervocracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 14:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quizzicalpussy.com/?p=688#comment-184</guid>
		<description>I still like &quot;The Proprietary Boob Project.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still like &#8220;The Proprietary Boob Project.&#8221;</p>
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